GMTT: Do You Collaborate With Your Players?

Hey all, welcome back for this week’s GMTT - really excited to share this week’s tip with all you DMs!

How many of you come up with this cool plot twist for a PC, get really excited about how it puts them in the spotlight and adds to their story, only to see it fall flat or worse when you bring it to the table? I know it happened to me plenty of times when I was starting off.

Fortunately, with a change in approach, you can make sure those plot points you cook up land with a bang every time!

 

 
 

 

I’ll start of with an anecdote going way back to my early days playing DnD- specifically, my first campaign as a player, and the DM’s first campaign as a DM. This was well before 5e’s time, but the lesson still applies today.

Me being me, I wrote a super grimdark backstory filled with death and tragedy, and played a more-or-less idealized version of who I wanted to be[1] - a quiet sorcerer who solved problems through wit and magic. I don’t remember his name any more, but we’ll call him “Dusk” for narritive simplicity.

The campaign itself was tons of fun - especially for the DM’s first campaign (which invariably come with some rough spots, no matter the amount of talent behind the screen). For our purposes, though, one moment stands out from it: In the backstory I wrote up, Dusk’s father, a distant Barron, had Dusk’s mother killed omg so ded for reasons unknown. The DM wanted to tie my character into the story a bit more, though, so they decided to bring my mother back to life and make her an integral part of the story - giving her a leadership role in a mysterious cult tied to my sorcererous origins. Now, I smelled something off with this (because of course) and didn’t really know how to handle it - so I had Dusk mostly keep her at arms length emotionally. I figured it would bite Dusk in the ass if he trusted her too much, and I didn’t want to put him at risk. I justified this by pointing out that Dusk would likely approach the situation with some suspicion - after all, her murder seemed pretty unambiguous to him, and it didn’t help that his mother dodged questions like a CEO in a press conference about sexual harassment allegations. Magic exists, so Dusk just kinda assumed she was the meat puppet of a necromancer somewhere. The DM, though, expected a different reaction - he assumed Dusk would resume his former emotional attachment to his mother he so recently thought lost, and would trust her absolutely.

An awkward few sessions of predictable back-and-forth ensued. The mother would do something motherly, yet deeply shady to Dusk. Then she’d ask for a favor or something, which Dusk would promptly refuse. The DM would heavily imply Dusk wouldn’t actually do that, and then I’d either make Dusk go along with that, or I wouldn’t, but I’d come out the other end frustrated either way.

A few things stand out to me from this story:

  1. Both me and the DM came up with valid interpretations of Dusk’s feelings about the situation. While you should (almost) always defer to your PC’s interpretations of their character, The DM’s assumption that my character would love to find his mother back in his life doesn’t exist outside the realm of possibility.

  2. Both me and the DM held opposing goals during this exchange. I wanted to preserve my character, which prompted me to keep my mother at arms length. The DM likely had a story in their head about how my character gets caught off guard by his mother, but is so enamored with the idea of having her back in his life that he rolls with it - only to realize later that she stood on the wrong side of broader events, suddenly forced to make a choice between his mother and broader moral rightness.

Because we had opposing goals during this encounter, it lead to a lot of tension and disagreements over how Dusk should react to events. We maybe could have resolved those differences had we known about them ahead of time - but once the cards were on the table, it was already too late

So the question is: What steps can we take to avoid this sort of situation?

Players Really Like Their Characters, Embrace It!

This seems obvious, but players, especially newer players who haven’t yet run more characters than they can remember through the meat grinder, like their characters. They build a vision of how their PCs act, come off, and will evolve. Likewise, they want that character to succeed in whatever they decide to set out and do.

This acts as an impediment, but also as an opportunity! You won’t get far fighting against your players, even accidentally. But, if you work with the players, especially ahead of time, you can get away with a lot more, all while also ensuring up front that your choice for plot direction lands.

“BUT IAN” I hear you interject at your computer and/or phone screen,“Telling my players what I’m doing ahead of time will take all the fun and surprise out of what I have in store!”

And indeed - you don’t want to tip your whole hand when talking to your players. But we don’t care about telling players the specifics of what’s going to happen, just the broad outline so they understand where you plan to take the story, and you understand what broad shape they want that story to take. Likewise, especially when it comes to character plot lines, working with just that player allows you to keep even the general flow of that plot as a surprise for the rest of the party.

Let’s take an example:

You’re DMing a player, Hrogg, who plays a barbarian brute named James, who happens to like his booze (as many DnD characters do). You decide to introduce some consequences into James’s life to spice things up. So, after a big night on the town, you have James wake up in a prison cell. Turns out he got lucky with a tree in the town square while wearing his undergarments like a hat. Funny right? And it opens an opportunity for James to show some growth by realizing the consequences for his actions!

Well, you notice that while some of table finds this absolutely hilarious, Hrogg doesn’t take so kindly to the injunction - pushing back on it. You find out a few days later he spent a bunch of time complaining after the fact to the players offline about how he felt railroaded, and how he wasn’t having fun with the campaign.

So, what went wrong?

Well, we have a few options. Maybe Hrogg has his own ideas about how he wants James to evolve over time - for instance, wanting him to grow into the role of Respected Leader and Tough Guy in a way that now feels shut off to Hrogg. Maybe he just wants to play a light, fluffy character that doesn’t really suffer the consequences of his actions - because life’s already serious enough. Maybe he didn’t like how the rules of the narrative were shifted under his feet - he hadn’t previously suffered any consequences for having James behave recklessly, so he thought it unfair that James all of a sudden got story-punished for something that, until now, happened consequence-free.

It doesn’t really matter, the result is the same. So, what should we have done differently?

Ask your players about their character arc

You always can (and should!) ask your players where they want to take their characters. Early on in my DMing career, I deeply neglected individual character arcs - I viewed them as the responsibility of the characters at best, or superfluous/secondary at worst. But that’s not accurate! Each player cares deeply about the shape their character’s arc takes over time, since it’s Their Character. Paying attention to them gives deep dividends, especially if you can leverage that work to tie the character’s growth back into the main plot!

So, especially when starting a game, I try to ask the players up front: “Where do you want to go with your character?” I ask questions to try and get a good understanding of the general arc they want to take over time, what their character wants, what the player wants for their character, what problems currently inflict themselves upon the character, and so on. Going back to our example with James and Hrogg:

  • DM: So what do you want to do with James?

  • Hrogg: Well, I was thinking of building a Barbarian with a drinking problem - you know the type

  • DM: Ok. So like, does the drinking factor into his life?

  • Hrogg: Nah, I was thinking more like a Hollywood drunk - always a martini in hand, but never really showing it.

  • DM: Ok, so what’s the overall goal with James then?

  • Hrogg: Well, I kinda wanted him to grow into a sort of Captain Kirk role - fearless leader bravely thrusting into the unknown

  • DM: Ok… how does that work with the party then? Have you talked to them about it?

  • Hrogg: Yeah, Trisha suggested I grab the leadership feat, which sounds cool to me~~

  • Dm: Hmm… yeah, leadership can get kinda overpowered, but maybe we can make something work. How are you planning on getting people to follow you?

… And so on.

You can see from the conversation above that Hrogg doesn’t oppose all forms of growth - it’s just that his idea of James’s character arc differs wildly from where you wanted to take it originally.

Fortunately, even if you absolutely love the idea of getting some emotional growth out of James, you now have options - for instance, maybe James struggles to find recruits without cleaning himself up. Point is, Hrogg will take a lot more quickly to the idea if it serves his end goal of turning James into the character he foresees James becoming.

But that’s just one thing. What else can we do?

Run plot ideas past your players

Just because you talk to a player about a plot idea, doesn’t mean you need to need to give away the farm. For instance, I regularly talk with my players about plot ideas I’m intending to run. Moving back to our example:

  • DM: Hey Grogg, I’m thinking of having a “The Hangover”-esque scene with James - what do you think?

  • Grog: Ehh, what did you have in mind?

  • DM: Oh, you know - James goes out for a night on the town, gets too drunk, craziness ensues

  • Grog: I dunno, maybe - it’s not really the speed I wanted James to run at. Maybe it could be a prank some fey play on James?

  • DM: Oh, yeah - it’s not quite that, but I actually have a thing which might work…

And you get the idea. Specifics remain a surprise, but you get the go ahead to take a risk with James ahead of time. This sort of precaution becomes less necessary as you understand your players and get to know where the boundaries are and what kind of plot devices they like, but especially at the start of a new campaign, or if you’re running with new or unfamiliar players, it can save a lot of sadness and awkwardness at the table. And even if the general situation no longer surprises the player, you have 2-4 others sitting there as a completely unaware audience!

Not to mention, my players often come up with way better ideas than me. After all, they only need to think about one character, while you get to split your attention between four or more, and a main plot on top of it!

Ask before violating internal consistency

Players and DMs naturally form understandings of how the game world works, and what rules it follows. For instance, most games just sort of “assume” any minor NPC or monster who reaches 0HP auto-dies and then poofs away as soon as players finish looting and leave. Likewise, many games assume that, if a brawl breaks out on the street, bystanders effectively don’t exist and won’t get hurt.

Moving back to our example with Hrogg, if our campaign hadn’t, until now, had any scenes where player excess with alcohol came with consequences, our new scene could catch Hrogg off guard. Maybe he doesn’t mind the idea per-se, but didn’t like that he couldn’t have seen it coming. Working with players ahead of time to clarify assumptions and crystallize expectations about how the game works saves lots of frustration - so you’ll almost always appreciate running new mechanics or shifts in game-play assumptions past players out-of-game beforehand. - even if just to make sure they know of the change and adjust their expectations accordingly.

It’s worth mentioning that, as with all rules, this comes with exceptions. Sometimes it makes sense to surprise your players or catch them off guard - although it helps to really know your players and what they want, and to build an atmosphere of trust and collaboration.

Wrapping up: Communication is Key

So kinda the awkward thing about this whole post is that it focuses on emotional intelligence, and communication, and the answer for that side of things almost always boils down to talking to your players. But this isn’t a DnD skill, this is a life skill.

To me[2], DnD is all about collaborative storytelling through system-mechanics. As a DM who particularly loves writing, and who programs for his day job, I naturally gravitate toward focusing on the “storytelling” and “system-mechanics” parts of that phrase - I love looking over cool methods of organizing your notes, or interesting techniques to improve storytelling & immersion, or unique tools to help combat run better or flow more smoothly. But that first part - “collaboration” - should occupy just as much of your brain-space as the rest of the game! We’re telling a story with our players, not to them, so the more you can integrate that into your DMing style, the sturdier that leg of your game will be!

In other words, if I had to summarize this whole post, I’d say: Communicate and collaborate with your players! It will pay definite, visible dividends over the course of your game.

Anyway, that’s it for today. Next week, we’ll have a “World Lore Wednesday” covering the Unatowan Pantheon - should be good stuff. The week after that, we’ll be back to a GMTT - talking about the “Card Game” metaphor of DMing. See you then!

 

 

Want more tips? check out our other posts - or, see them in action in our Pathfinder 2e stream, youtube series & soon-to-be podcast, How Not to End the World

[1] Because, really, who doesn’t for their first character?

[2] Of course, there are other valid and fun ways of playing DnD. Focusing on the "wargame" aspect, or the "dungeon crawl" aspect, or even just as free-form storytelling can all provide tons of fun! This just covers the approach I prefer to take, and the way I get the most out of the game.